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Disregard... was created by 10-76

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Last edit: 10 years 3 months ago by 10-76.
10 years 7 months ago #28869

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Replied by Siscowet on topic Barrel/gun break-in

I hope not, as I have put a couple of hundred OFV 75 rounds through my A4 this summer. It is pretty much standard NATO specs according to my research. And surprisingly accurate in my A4 at a hundred yards. My understanding is that Winchester was contracted to build and run an ammunition plant for the Indian Army in the early 1970's and that is where it was manufactured.Apparently the contract expired in the early 1980's and the Indian government took the plant over and the quality went to pot. I am just starting to reload the brass and it looks good. I have heard you should stay away from any OFV head stamped with late 80's or early 90's marks, as the powder has been cut, and in some cases crimps are nonexistent to the point of bullets falling out. But I have never heard this about mid 70's OFV.
Last edit: 10 years 7 months ago by Siscowet.
10 years 7 months ago #28870

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Replied by 10-76 on topic Barrel/gun break-in

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Last edit: 10 years 3 months ago by 10-76.
10 years 7 months ago #28873

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Replied by OleCowboy on topic Barrel/gun break-in


These folks KNOW bbls and if I were to rebbl, hands down I would buy from Krieger. I have met with their engineer and they know what they are talking about. They also just won another accuracy title.



"BREAK-IN & CLEANING:

With any premium barrel that has been finish lapped -- such as your Krieger Barrel --, the lay or direction of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, so fouling is minimal compared to a barrel with internal tooling marks. This is true of any properly finish-lapped barrel regardless of how it is rifled. If it is not finish-lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button-rifled barrel as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.

Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is removed from the jacket material and released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this plasma and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it, copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat “polished” without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.

Every barrel will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is a similar hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in, sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the cleaning procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while breaking in the throat with bullets being fired over it.

Finally, the best way to tell if the barrel is broken in is to observe the patches; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.

CLEANING:

This section on cleaning is not intended to be a detailed instruction, but rather to point out a few "do's and don'ts". Instructions furnished with bore cleaners, equipment, etc. should be followed unless they would conflict with these "do's and don'ts."

You should use a good quality one piece coated cleaning rod with a freely rotating handle and a rod guide that fits both your receiver raceway and the rod snugly. How straight and how snug? The object is to make sure the rod cannot touch the bore. With M14/M1 Garand barrels a good rod and muzzle guide set-up is especially important as all the cleaning must be done from the muzzle. Even slight damage to the barrel crown is extremely detrimental to accuracy.

There are two basic types of bore cleaners, chemical and abrasive. The chemical cleaners are usually a blend of various ingredients including oils, solvents, and ammonia (in copper solvents). The abrasive cleaners generally contain no chemical solvents and are an oil, wax, or grease base with an extremely fine abrasive such as chalk, clay, or gypsum.

We recommend the use of good quality, name brand chemical cleaners on a proper fitting patch/jag combination for your particular bore size and good quality properly sized nylon or bronze brushes.

So what is the proper way to use them? First, not all chemical cleaners are compatible with each other. Some, when used together can cause severe pitting of the barrel, even stainless steel barrels. It is fine to use two different cleaners as long as you completely dry the bore of the first cleaner from the barrel before cleaning with the second. And, of course, never mix them in the same bottle. NOTE: Some copper solvents contain a high percentage of ammonia. This makes them a great copper solvent, but if left in the bore too long, can damage/corrode the steel. Do not leave these chemicals in a bore any longer than 10-15 minutes MAXIMUM! DO NOT EVER use straight ammonia to clean a barrel.

Follow instructions on the bottle as far as soak time, etc. Always clean from the breech whenever possible, pushing the patch up to the muzzle and then back without completely exiting the muzzle. If you exit the muzzle, the rod is going to touch the bore and be dragged back in across the crown followed by the patch or brush. Try to avoid dragging items in and out of the muzzle, it will eventually cause uneven wear of the crown. Accuracy will suffer and this can lead you to believe the barrel is shot out, when in fact, it still may have a lot of serviceable life left. A barrel with a worn or damaged crown can be re-crowned and accuracy will usually return. Have the crown checked by a competent gunsmith before giving up on a barrel that may otherwise be in good condition.

This information is intended to touch on the critical areas of break-in and cleaning and is not intended as a complete, step-by-step guide or recommendation of any product. Use a quality one piece cleaning rod that is either vinyl coated or carbon fiber, a rod guide proper for the action you are cleaning, and chemicals, jag’s, patches, and brushes that you have determined work best for you. There is no “right” answer to cleaning products and equipment, however under NO circumstances should you use a stainless brush. If you choose to use brushes in your cleaning use only quality bronze phosphor brushes or nylon. Clean them after every use to extend their life. Copper solvents will dissolve a bronze brush rather quickly.

BREAK IN:
The following is a guide to "break-in" based on our experience. This is not a hard and fast rule, only a guide. Some barrel, chamber, bullet, primer, powder, pressure, velocity etc. combinations may require more cycles some less. It is a good idea to just observe what the barrel is telling you with its fouling pattern and the patches. But once it is broken in, there is no need to continue breaking it in.

Initially you should perform the shoot-one-shot-and-clean cycle for five shots. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots before cleaning and observe. If fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. Do not be alarmed if your seating depth gets longer during break in. This is typical of the “high” spots in the throat being knocked down during this procedure. It is not uncommon for throat length to grow .005”-.030” from a fresh unfired chamber during break in.

Stainless Chrome moly

5-10 one-shot cycles 5 - 25 - one-shot cycles

1 three-shot cycle 2 - three-shot cycles

1 five-shot cycle 1 - five-shot cycle

SERVICE LIFE:

Quite often we get asked about the service life of a barrel or “How long will my barrel last?”. The truth is a complicated result of many factors, ultimately service life is determined by a combination of cartridge, cleaning practices, shooting style, etc. A barrel is “Shot Out” or at the end of it’s service life when the throat erosion has resulted in the bullet no longer able to be seated to touch the lands and still remain in the case by a reasonable amount, and heat checking/cracking has progressed several inches forward of the throat. These are the normal determining factors that cause a degradation in accuracy from when the barrel was ‘fresh’ or new. Cartridge choice, powder selection, pressure (a combination of powder selection/amount, bullet weight, and cartridge design), and cleaning procedures will ALL have an effect on how long of a service life your particular barrel has. No two pieces of barrel steel will have the same exact properties either. We can give an “average” barrel life for a particular cartridge if it is a common one used in competition, but that is no guarantee of any round count due to all of the listed factors above. Most cartridge designs larger than .223 Rem or .308 Win in powder capacity to bore ratio will begin to erode the throat measurably in less than 1000 rounds.

Thank you for choosing a Krieger barrel."

www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm
The following user(s) said Thank You: super8mm
10 years 7 months ago #28877

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Replied by MrMarty51 on topic Barrel/gun break-in

As long as We are on the topic of doing a "good and well done" break in.
I purchased My AR10, chrome moly barrel, off of gunbroker. com, used.
I do not know that a good break in procedure had been done on the barrel.
The Rifle seems to operate and function very well but i just can not get it to group in real tight.
I have`nt had a chance since buying it to really bag it down and fire it to see how it really does.
Mainly the firing I have done has been off the shoulder and laying across a concrete shooting table and the forearm being bagged. First shot is wild, then it seems that at the fifty yard range the group is quite wide. that was shooting Federal 150 grain new ammo.
if the barrel had not been properly broke in before I purchased the rifle, is there a way to undo any damage and start over.
probably not, but curious if anyone has had any experience with an improperly broke in barrel.
Moderators, if You think this post should be moved to a thread all of its own, then please do so with My blessings.
Martin
Things is moving fast now.
What`ll You say when Jesus asks, Why did`nt You read My book ???
10 years 7 months ago #28883

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Replied by OleCowboy on topic Barrel/gun break-in

Yes, sorta, maybe, kinda, NO.

Mostly depends upon how many rds have gone down range. If its been shot very much then the answer is NO, not really. If its low rds as in say maybe <50, perhaps <100 you might have a chance at IMPROVING, but their is no way to 100% undo and start over.

What I would do is C L E A N it down to the metal. Blue Wonder is some GREAT stuff for that. Follow the instructions to a T. www.bluewonder.us/ Now go thru a good break in procedure following it to a T. If you have a low rds count you should see some slight to little bit improvement in accuracy.

If you bought the gun used then we all KNOW no one sells a gun that has ever had more than 50 rds ever fired thru it in spite of the rifle bbl looking more like a shotgun bbl...
Last edit: 10 years 7 months ago by OleCowboy.
10 years 7 months ago #28885

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Replied by 10-76 on topic Barrel/gun break-in

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Last edit: 10 years 3 months ago by 10-76.
10 years 7 months ago #28886

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Replied by MrMarty51 on topic Barrel/gun break-in

Now that is some mighty interesting reading.
I need to get done with this project and get to the range, do a proper rest and shoot session and see just exactly what this critter is doing.
Thank You all for the very good information.
Now, I`ll have to check to see how much copper fouling I have in that critter.
Things is moving fast now.
What`ll You say when Jesus asks, Why did`nt You read My book ???
10 years 7 months ago #28906

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